tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC April 22, 2021 12:00am-1:00am PDT
tonight on all in. >> yesterday's verdict in this state criminal trial does not address, potentially systemic policing issues in minneapolis. one day after the murder verdict, the push for reform grows. >> we still have work to do. >> tonight how derek chauvin got more justice than any american overdoes. in the renewed push for big change, with senator cory booker and congresswoman cory bush. and senator republicans confront reality, by way of stacey abrams. >> i think you've called it a racist bill? am i right? >> i think there are provisions of it that are racist, yes. >> plus ben rhodes on what our president can do about the russian president. as protesters swarmed the streets for alexei navalny. and steve kornacki in his big core breakdown where we are after 200 million shots, in 92 days. in where there's work to be done. it all in starts now.
>> good evening from new york, there are those who will tell you, that former minneapolis police officer derek chauvin did not get due process. some are even calling his conviction at a lynching, saying the jury was intimidated to find him guilty. these people seem to be taking his conviction personally, because they seem to be personally invested in derek chauvin and why he did it being allowed. the fact of the matter, is derek chauvin got more due process, then at least 90% of criminal defendants in this country. every once in a while in america, we have a big show stopping trial, we all tune into. like the chauvin trial. and people start to think, that a trial like that represents american justice. just like cremation or law in order. it doesn't. thinking that is like watching the nba in assuming that that's what every pick up basketball game and every level of schooling in america looks like. trials do not happen that frequently in america. less than 10% of criminal
defendants go to trial. the whole system, works on plead eels. every day, the criminal justice system moves people from arrest to jail, to plea, to prison. that's the system. if every criminal defendant in america got the derek chauvin treatment, full trial, the entire legal criminal justice system would collapse tomorrow. it can't function. jail, plea, prison. that's the way it goes for just about everyone, 90% of the people. except cops. cops are often not even indicted by grand jury's. when they are indicted they go to trial, with the reasonable expectation they will be acquitted. going into the chauvin trial in the aftermath of his conviction, it's been abundantly clear that the criminal justice system, is not fixed for the bigger problem here. nearly 30 years, ago in the wake of the police beating on tape of rodney king, and then the acquittal of four los angeles police officers involved, this city and much of
the country erupted in outrage. congress gave the attorney general a new power. to investigate police departments in cases involving a quote, pattern or practice of conduct, by officers that may violate federal rights. this was part of the 1994 crime bill, in the came to be known as pattern or practice cases. in may of 2000, the justice department announced, it was filing a lawsuit against the los angeles to police department under that law. alleging the lapd is engaged in a pattern or practice of constitutional violations, through excessive force, false arrests, unreasonable searches and seizures, in that management deficiencies of allowed this misconduct to occur. this fell years of misconduct, at the lapd. beatings and shootings. rampant corruption, including a group of officers originally tasked with combatting gangs, who essentially just became an armed gang themselves. later that, year the city of los angeles agreed to enter into a federal consent decree. that's a mutually agreed upon
set of reforms. to the police department, and then a federal oversight process to make sure those in reforms are being implemented. under the obama administration, the department of justice open 25 of these pattern practice investigations into police departments. i've read a bunch of the reports issued from them. from ferguson to cleveland. one of the most prominent being the probe into the ferguson police department, after police officer fatally shot 18 year old michael brown in 2014. but the trump administration almost completely abandon the practice. under both attorneys general jeff sessions and bill, barr opening just one investigation into the springfield massachusetts police department in 2018. at the time, critics noted, with a huge mistake that was, wooden unused power. >> this justice department, is not interested in remedying major systemic problems in police departments. >> the president jeff sessions, bill barr, have been uniformly focused on dismantling the
police reform efforts, that the justice department had been engaged. in this justice department has really walked away from the role that it needs to play. donald trump lost and joe biden won, and today the federal government is getting back in the game. joe biden's attorney general announcing an investigation into derek chauvin's police department. >> yesterday's verdict in this state criminal trial does not address potentially systemic policing issues in minneapolis. today, i'm announcing that the justice department has opened a civil investigation, to determine whether the minneapolis police department engages in a pattern of practice, of unconstitutional, or unlawful policing. the department of justice will be unwavering in its pursuit, of equal justice. , under law. attorney general merrick garland will be heading that new pattern practice probe, along with his newly confirmed number three at the justice department, anita gupta. now the associate good tierney
general of the united states, that you just heard speaking about those needs for the investigations. they show the dire need of change in the administration. this is one policy tool we do have to reform police departments that are pro can. democratic congressman -- in ferguson after the killing of michael brown. she joins me now. congresswoman, you have seen this up close. and it's part of what got you into politics. your reaction to both the trial yesterday in the announcement from the journey general today? >> the trial was just traumatic to watch. it's as dramatic as every day leaving in this country as a black person, or a brown, person or an indigenous person. that would just like to live their life, a life that you get to see other people live. but you just don't get that. in so we got to see that play out, in this trial. but we've seen this happen over
and over again. watching with baited breath, watching with baited breath, what's going to happen with this verdict. okay, will they came back a little fast, so they could've come back so, maybe it's going to be guilty. or maybe it's just that type of injury. it will just all of these thoughts. but, the thing that people expect us to be overjoyed in happy and celebrating is the thing that, if you murder someone, you put union someone's neck, and it was your job to protect and serve the community, that you put your knee on someone's neck and they kept saying that they couldn't breathe, in people were saying or you're going to kill, him and you continue to do, it i think that says, that we have this huge problem, but the thing that i understand chris is, why do we have to keep fighting this.
why is it that the world is watching, like what is going to happen with, this is should've been like oh we already know what's going to happen, because it should've happened. this should be the thing, but now we're here, and i hope that all of our law enforcement sea, and i'm not just someone that's anti law enforcement so no one needs to put that out. i want people to do their jobs and do that right. and be held accountable in everything they do. so pay attention line forsman. >> do their job do it right and be held accountable. which i think are principles that are broad agreement on. if you articulated the vision that way. in obviously are a member of congress, she represent police officers, i'm sure you have interactions with them as a representative in that respect. i guess the question is, do you think the federal government can help here? a remembering congress you work your way from being an organizer an activist in the wake of michael brown's, death to now having a vote in that congress. do you think the federal government has a real play here? >> absolutely, first of all,
just the fact that we do get to bring forward legislation. i'm here to legislate, i've said it 1 million times, i'm here to legislate, to save black lives. because black lives is there is a huge problem in our country, where black lives are always targeted. brown lives are always targeted. i'm here to legislate with that in mind first. so yes, that is our job. and we have the power of the pen in the power of the purse. we can do something about it. we do have legislation, that has been brought forward. george floyd justice and policing act. we have to grieve, act we have my office, we are also working on some things that we will bringing forward. the thing is, i am a member of our house judiciary committee. even sitting on this committee, one thing that i can look at, is bringing to the forefront, these issues, that i've been able to witness, this is the thing, chris i'm not talking
about what i just heard. i'm not talking about what i read. i'm not talking about other people have said or emailed. i'm talking about what i have seen it witnessed in what i have experienced myself. i'm someone who, i remember laying on the ground chris, during the ferguson process the night when when the new true bill was called by the. that night. i remember laying on the ground -- in being on the ground wondering who do i call out to you in this moment. who do you call when it's the police. who am i calling out too to save me. we should not live in a country where that is the thing for somebody who is just trying to work to save lives. and just being a member of this community. now, now that ice in this seat, that is the work that i have before. me to call that to the carpet. to put those people, to bring them before, in hearings, to make sure that that change happens. change doesn't happen if people don't feel. it if their lives don't change.
and that's what i'm here to do. >> congresswoman cory, bush great pleasure to have you on, tonight thank you very much. >> thank you chris. >> i want to turn now to the acting president endings -- it's an organization you may have heard. of it was previously led by kristen clark, who is now awaiting confirmation to lead the justice department civil rights division. mr. hue at you have big shoes to, phil were all watching the kristen clark hearing. you have a lot of experience with these what we call federal consent decrees. products investigations by the department of justice into local police departments, that lead to some sort of oversight situation. do they work? is this an effective tool in the tool kit here? >> first of all, it's important chris, thanks for having me. it's important to make sure we use every tool that is in the tool kit. there's a reason why -- in fact, in the sea as the
attorney general, there was some concern or fear that it was going to be an effective tool. there's a reason why it was, in the reason he's using the tool once again. it's not perfect. but it is the one thing that we have right now. at the executive level. that can go beyond the individual killing in individual murder, or individual trial, so that every aspect of policing, in a particular jurisdiction, it can be triggered by a particular killing, as this one was, in minneapolis, but it can be triggered by a number of things. comparing queuing complaints from community members who are getting the round of the deal. >> one thing that i found as a journalist, with these patterson practiced investigations, they producer in record, by the federal government, that almost has an effective saying to communities, you're not crazy, it's pretty bad here. you saw that with the ferguson reports of patterns and practices, where federal investigators went in in
confirmed that this was fundamentally an exploitative force, they side in cleveland, baltimore, a whole bunch of other places. how important is that record setting? in having an authoritative voice, the justice department, go in and document ways happening with a given police department? >> civil rights 1:01 is documentation. to put in some daily on the situation. what it does chris is a couple of things. one it creates a record. which helps build a case. the policy case the activism case. but it also, is valid to communities, and also gives a roadmap to those of the local level who want to make things we want to be part of it. it provides an effective roadmap as well for what exactly is the problem. what is wrong with the changes need to be. >> what other tools do you want to see marshaled here? again, in the aftermath of, this the aftermath of the biggest civil rights protests and probably a generation, this brutal murder that happened via
recording, a country in which police officers killed three people a day, it's unlike anything that ever happens anywhere else in the world, a country with very high levels of inter personal violence which relates that. it's a very arms populist, the police are engaging every day. what other tools do you want to see marshaled? >> the cycles of violence in a variety of communities, and state violence is one part of it. that's with the federal government and local state governments can certainly address directly. what we need, is a counterpart, for the parent and practice investigation. cori bush member mentioned one great, when the george floyd justice in policing act. we need that one to punch, for civil and criminal liability, in the cases. it won't be every case. but in the appropriate case. we need a registry that shine some daylight on what officers are doing, when the react with the community. it's not all officers, but there's certainly some, too many frankly who are acting
with impunity. the day out there going from one police department to the, next where they have no resemblance of accountability, when they go unchecked. if we have a moral clarity, that the information can provide to correct these investigations combined with the potential for enforcement, at the executive level and the potential for civil and sanctions, i think we can then start to see the legal system, it makes informative changes. it makes informative changes >> vice president kamala how much urged the senate to pass the george floyd act, which we were just discussing, that is a policing reform bill that she introduced along with cory booker last summer. now in the wake of the guilty verdict, there is a renewed attention on making meaningful change in policing. it is sort of an or never moment for this act.
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enforcement and our communities. this bill is part of george floyd's legacy. the president and i will continue to urge the senate to pass this legislation, not as a panacea for every problem but as a start. >> a summer in the weeks following george floyd's murder, they promise fundamental changes to policing. it never events to the senate for republicans offered a counter build, a watered down version of the bill. at the time, new jersey senator cory booker called the bill woefully inadequate, deeply flawed and painfully week. when it comes to police amy reform, he may have a bigger handle on it than other senators, not only is he one of the drafters in this bill he was mayor of new york new jersey when the justice department sent him a letter announcing, a patterns in
practice investigation in the police department. by the time new york entered a settlement, in may 2016, booker was in the senate, since then he's made a number of proposals to reform criminal justice including one that was signed into law by donald trump in 2018. joining me now is senator cory booker, democrat from new jersey. i want to first, we're talking about the policing act, we talked about some of its provisions, what would it do? what is this a sink version about what it would do and how it would apply to the problems folks experience with policing at the ground level? >> i'm glad you brought this up, i'm a former mayor with a majority black city, black mayor, and we were doing innovative reforms, some of the made a big difference but the justice department data showed us that we had severe challenges and problems, and we went about changing them even
further. but this goes to show you, this isn't about tensions, decision about overt racism, this is about systems that are desperately needed -- they desperately need change, the best way i know how to do that is to create accountability, to accountability in george floyd act has a lot more transparency. that data dabo scraped by the justice department of my city, we want to pull that data from every police department, from uses of force to racial breakdown of the traffic stops and more. in addition to that, we want to ban certain practices that have led to the death of people like eric garner, or breonna taylor, specifically those kinds of no knock warrants and those kinds of chokeholds. on top of that we want to create greater liability, when you violate someone's civil rights, when you violate the law, we want to see real accountability, and that means taken on things like qualified immunity, which are shielding cities and officers from that.
so there is a lot in our bill, it would go a long way in shifting american police accountability, and that is what we are pressing for. >> i've heard of this argument -- sometimes i've heard this argument from things that are seeing it cynically, police officers are good cops good, police officers don't care about it that something like for instance getting rid of the qualified immunity protections, which is something that the supreme court has build up through its jurisprudence to make it an impenetrable shield. that that would put police officers in a defensive crouch, it'll make them less proactive and you will get worse policing. what is your argument in response to that? >> that's not my belief, i don't share that belief whatsoever. i really do believe that you have to in any profession know that if you grossly, violate laws that there are
consequences for that. we've seen the kind of impunity that that has led to, as if these bad officers do not think they will be consequences when they do these horrific things. and so i am trying my best amid some deep talks to get to a place where we don't solve all the problems, i think policing reform is going to take a lot more, about where we can say to america, we have created more accountability, more transparency, change standards and -- to take a big stride to make americans safer, and the police profession which is hurting right now, it is hurting, in my state for example, the headline just read that we have a historical law in applications for state police, we need to heal police communication and trust in law enforcement. and so there is a lot we have to work. and i think we can. this is the moment to make some strides towards greater justice
in our. country karen bass, who is one of the coauthors of this legislation on the house, sideways on the program in the last, hour talking about feeling there's some prospects here, there's some informal conversations having with tim scott, the author and sponsor of that sort of alternative bill, that was floated the last time around. is there an actual bipartisan consensus majority piece of legislation. is that a possibility in the next short term? >> is most certainly a possibility. tim and i are friends, we've done bills together. before. and he's a good faith actor. and we are in conversations. i have some confidence that we can get something done. the question is will it be enough. so that we can say it's real reform. real change. because i've seen things before from racial sensitivity training, to community policing funding, and it has not led to a stop of the deaths of people,
like tamir rice, george floyd, breonna taylor, eric garner, in the names that we all know. so my standard is are we making real substance reforms. that we can say are really going to make a difference, in accountability in our country. i am encouraged by the conversations right now. and i'm hard at work. this is been the center of my efforts for many days now. to try to get something delivered on the president's desk. >> okay senator cory booker, thanks so much for coming on. >> thank you very. much >> just ahead republican john kennedy tries to go toe-to-toe is d.c. rooms on voters suppression laws. shockingly does not go so well for him. that amazing exchange next. exchange next exchange next try febreze light. it eliminates odors with no heavy perfumes in light scents you'll love. febreze light.
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stomp her by asking her to strip list all of the reasons why the georgia law is races, and stacey abrams one of the most knowledgeable people on that lawn the country was ready. >> your against the georgia bill i gather, is that right? >> i'm against certain provisions of it yes. >> and i think you've called it a racist bill, am i right? >> i think there are some provisions that are racist, yes. >> tell me specifically, just give me a list of the provisions that you object to. >> i object to the provisions that remove access to the right to vote, that shorten the federal run out here in from nine week to four weeks -- >> slow down, for me, our audio is not really good here. could you start over for me? >> certainly, it shortened the federal runoff period from nine
weeks to four weeks, it restricts the time a voter can request to return an absentee ballot application, it requested voters have an identification or some form of identification that they are willing to surrender in order to participate in the absentee ballot process -- >> if i can just stop you, that is where -- not comparing signature but to voter i.d.? >> yes, sir. and as you pointed out, we would count only the fourth state in the nation to require voters to put -- >> what else? >> it eliminates over 300 hours of drop box availability. it bans nearly all out of precinct folks. >> fans? what >> it bans out of precinct votes, meaning that if you get to a precinct and you are in line for four hours and you get to the end of the line and you are not there between 5 and 7 pm, you have to start all over
again. >> is that everything? >> no, it is not, no, sir. it restricts the hours of operation because now under the guise of sending a standardized timeline makes it optional for counties that may be, may not want to see expanded access to the right to vote, they cannot limit their hours instead of the hours being from 7 to 7 there now from 9 to 5, which may have an effect on voters who cannot vote during business hours, during early voting. it limits the -- >> i get the idea. >> okay, that is enough. you asked sir, the georgia law is one example of for a lack of a better law -- in florida republicans passed a law that basically attempt to criminalize protesting, though that is going to be challenge, introducing new crimes like aggravated rioting and mob intimidation. the law also, and this is real,
increases protection to those responding to the demonstration, granting civil immunity to drivers who run through crowds of protesters. republicans also tried to pass a voter restriction bill, as of last month registry does have introduced 361 bills with restrictive provisions. not just in places where they feel like they might lose, but in places like montana. that governor just signed a law and doing same day voter registration and increasing restrictions on voter identification. ari berman is -- and also the author of give us the ballot. he joins me now. already one of the things that came through very effectively in stacey abrams response to senator kennedy and in all these bills is there is a death
by 1000 cuts feel to that. we're gonna limit this and we're gonna reduce drop boxes and reduce hours and squeeze a little bit. all these little changes that go in one direction. >> that is absolutely right. it is a cumulative impact of voter suppression. remember, in georgia they wanted to make these big sweeping changes they, want to get rid of no excuse absentee voting, they wanted to cut weekend voting, and that was so politically unpopular, they went for these more under the radar changes. they thought people would not be able to understand. things like stripping the secretary of state of power after he stood up to trump, or giving them control over election administration that they did not have before or throwing out ballots that aren't cast in the wrong creasing, and i think remember trump asked him to find him 11,000 votes, and the secretary of state couldn't do that. so now they are passing these laws to try to find 11,000
votes, and more by making it harder to vote in future elections. >> georgia sudden interesting example because there is a history there with brian camped, there is a longer history there because it is a state in the deep south that has all the kind of jim crow laws into book prior to the voting rights act. now it is a state that flipped by this narrow margin. montana's interesting because, republicans did find, and they did find. you can green an election as a republican and you, don't meet this. and yet same impulse one of the first things the governor is doing. >> this is the playbook all across the country, chris. the top priority of the republican party right now is to make it hard to vote. and not just in states that joe biden won, obviously, that is ground zero for the effort, places like georgia, arizona, michigan, this is where there are most desperate to enact these restrictions on voting. but they're also pushing them in states that trump won like
florida and in states like he won comfortably like montana, and iowa. so they're all marching off the same kind of playbook, and the laws that they are passing to restrict voting rights are very similar all across the country, for example, georgia passed a bill that criminalize giving food and water to people in line. that was a controversial provision, while similar bills have not been introduced in florida and in arkansas. criminalizing election administration that is happening not just in georgia board in iowa, florida, in other states, in texas and really they're not just trying to make it harder to vote and all the states, they tried to make it difficult in all the sting ways. >> there is an ohio story that i stop today that they have judicial elections, democrats have done pretty well, and and they don't have the party lines listed, even though the judicial people running for these state courts are democrats, and republicans want to change it now to have a
partisan i.d.. i thought it was interesting because that is an anti-democratic, you can make arguments on both directions honestly in terms of voter transparency. but it is another example of losing a set of elections and immediately go into the rules, that's the thing to deal with as opposed to your message, your platform, whatever you're gonna do. >> that has been the playbook all across the country, it hasn't been to reach out to more voters, it's been how to have fewer voters participate in the process. and it is always about changing the rules only when they don't work for them. so in georgia, republicans wrote all of the voting laws, and they were perfectly fine with them until democrats started using them in large numbers, and it is interesting in florida they're trying to make it harder to vote by mail, they're trying to get rid of drop boxes, they're only doing that when democrats outnumber republicans in male voters for the first time. they talk about trying to get people to vote by mail, and
then the second the democrats are doing it they say that we have to get rid of it, that's telling that instead of trying to appeal to more voters there just trying to futile voters participate. that is basically the central organizing principle, everywhere when it comes to how they view democracy right now. >> i think they have to convince themselves -- i don't even think that right about this, here's the crazy thing, i don't think the right, i don't think the statistics bear out, but they have convinced themselves that fewer people voting the better for us. on the margins let's make it harder. ari berman who is the reporter on this beat and has been for a while, thank you so much. >> thanks, chris. >> don't go anywhere, u.s. hits a major milestone in vaccinations to one and only steve kornacki here to break down the latest numbers. it is coming up next. up next try febreze unstopables fabric refresher. with 2 times the scent power of regular febreze, unstopables fabric finds, neutralizes and eliminates tough odors trapped in hard-to-wash fabrics,
like couches or smelly sports equipment; leaving an irresistibly fresh scent. and for a tropical burst of freshness, try new paradise scent. stop sneaky odors from lingering in your home, with febreze unstopables. the first survivor of alzheimer's disease is out there. and the alzheimer's association is going to make it happen. but we won't get there without you. join the fight with the alzheimer's association.
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you up. it's keeping you up at night. maybe you have some workplace conflict or have a relative who is sick or your kid is being bullied at school are in debt and stressing your finances. there are just all sorts of forces of anxiety and difficulties around us. and it is never the case that you can just go and get a shot, and take it away. it's not how life works, it never happens. which means the coronavirus vaccine is as close to a magic wand as will exist in our lives. over the last year, the virus has been a source of tremendous stress and gaiety and grief and peril to your health. and now, you can just go and get a shot and essentially make that all that stress disappear. that's why people talk about getting emotional when they get the vaccine. it is so remarkable because nothing else in life work that way. and that sense it really is a miracle. just today president joe biden announced -- we have administer 200 million doses of vaccines in less than
100 days, in 92 days which is great news. here to crunch the numbers tell us exactly how each of our countries vaccinated economic we still have to go as the great steve kornacki, back with the big board. >> chris thank you, let's take a look at a couple different ways we can look at the numbers and by the way plan your vaccine.com, that is nbc's way of helping you figure out where you can get your vaccine. 40.5% of the entire population, everybody in the united states from the oldest to the youngest, and the entire population in this country 40.5% have gotten at least one dose of the vaccine. now there are a couple of other ways to break down this number, that is everybody, what about just the adult age population folks. 18 years of older, the number gets higher there, in fact it was this week that this milestone of 50%, 50% of the adult population in the country having at least one dose dose, 51.5%, work your way up to
senior citizens the most vulnerable group, 65 plus now over 80% of seniors, that number continuing to rise with at least one dose. you can add undoubtedly on on this, fully vaccinated, getting both shots, take a look at that category. it is a quarter of the total population, a third of the adult population, and two thirds of this new population. just a reminder when you look at those numbers among seeing there is that rate of vaccination, there have been more than half million deaths tragically from covid, look how cute it has been towards seniors, 81% of those deaths have come from those 65 and older. 95% of those deaths have come from folks 15 older, so when you see vaccination rates that high right now, for seniors, for older americans, keep that in mind red there. and it also probably goes a long way to explain this what you see here, this is the rolling average here of deaths from covid, early this year we
were really hitting that new peak, early this year, this right here, this is basically the start of february, this is basically the part where we crossed the 10% threshold for vaccinations and it has been climbing and climbing. millions every day, really. and as that has been happening you can see here that daily rolling average of the death rate has really dropped. it has plateaued a bit lately, one thing we have seen lately -- there are more people getting vaccinated every day, but the exponential growth in vaccination, it seems to be stopping, maybe slowing a little bit, that might be the cause for concern. but at least right now, you can get that really ramped up. one of the ways of looking that is looking at the one shot for the population in the u.s., how does that compare to other countries in the world just to give you our range. so for at least one shot, israel leads the way internationally, 62% there, if
you look by the wet israel right now it could be a preview of what is to come here, if you look at the new daily cases, they are really getting glow right now. japan, summer olympics is supposed to be this summer, 1% right now in japan of the adult population there has at least one shot. >> that chart, that when you have up there is really interesting, but israel, you can the united states those are places that had bad outbreaks, had a tough time, where you look at places like japan and germany they did a much better job at handling the virus. but now it has turned around who is better at administering the vaccine. >> the way they stress the rollout in the uk has been to get everybody at least one dose, and in some cases put off that
second dose. if you look at the fully vaccinated numbers, the u.s. would actually vault past the uk on that one. >> among large countries we are up near the top, steve kornacki, that is fantastic, thanks for joining us. all right massive arrest in russia, thousands of protesters taken to the streets in support of jailed opposition leader, alexei navalny, doctors say he could decide any minute. more information on with the biden administration can do, next. next its highly active peroxide droplets swipe on in seconds. better. faster. 100% whiter teeth. crestwhitesmile.com
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people took to the streets across russia today to protest the treatment of imprisoned opposition leader alexei navalny, his health is failing, there's real concern that he is essentially slowly being killed by the russian state, by president vladimir putin in front of the world. people gathered in cities and towns, shouting putin is a
thief. in the other side of the country protesters shouted get a doctor to navalny. people supported his wife, yulia, who took to the streets. nearly 1500 people were arrested at the government crackdown the protests. incredibly brave what they were doing. there is a new administration that is no longer differential to vladimir putin, but still it's the same set of problems between the two countries. the biden administration just leveled new sanctions against russia, for the hack on the u.s. government. russia expelled ten diplomats in response, -- nearly 100,000 troops are on the border between russia and ukraine. how does the u.s. managed to create --
she has closely -- of slowly killing your most powerful and popular pointed in front of the world. what putin is doing to navalny is a defining moment of our time in people must not look away. ben rhodes, joins me now. ben, i think obviously this relationship was very strained under donald trump, his indifference to putin was trained, refusing to criticize, but it was always the case that the difficulty of this relationship was deeper than trump, and you're really seeing that now. trump's gone, and we can do sanctions and we can collect human rights abuses, but i don't know how much that changes rushing behavior. how do you see the path forward here? >> well, first of all putin tends to make the decisions that he thinks are in his best
interests. the u.s. has tried pressure and he has done what he wanted to do whether it is in places like ukraine or syria. we've tried to have reset relationships with russia and he's still done those. so i think we have to understand that putin is gonna make these judgments particularly about how countries people at home on his own, but at the same time we can do is shape those choices, and pose a cost because part of what he is doing in part of what i was throwing in that tweet is not just strangling russian opposition in civil society, he has been at the guard of a brand of nationalism that has spread across the world. and it is important for the united states of take a stand, not just against putin, but against that trend which we have seen even reaching of course our own border. >> this is always the problem with russia, and then would question be, right? it keeps being wrong, it is a nuclear power, when you talk about eastern ukraine, they basically straight-up stole
crimea, it was an international crime, you can't just going to another country, we imposed sanctions, but then the thought for their own security it was probably worth the cost. we're not gonna go to war with the nuclear power and they know that. if they kill navalny in front of the world, it's like, ok, what is the answer to the than would question? >> to me the answer is that we take the work that alexei navalny has been doing, and we do things that are not necessary to confront putin but also to uphold the things that we think are important. election of on the has been successful because he has relentlessly exposed the corruption of putin in his circle, the day he returned to russia and he was imprisoned he released a video about a house that putin owns that is the most expensive house in the world. the united states government wanted to reveal the full extent of vladimir putin's corruption and that of his circles, we could do that. if the united states of america wanted to spend much more
resources cracking down on money laundering, on the trafficking of dark money through the american financial system that supports the oligarchy of not just vladimir putin but some of his like-minded friends around the world, we could do that. so to me it is about going on the offense, not necessarily just about putin but against the brand of corruption that he represents, navalny they are so frustrated by that. that is something that we have not yet done and we could do. >> so i want to make an argument on the other side just as devils advocate because i think it's a thorny problem. the way in the other direction is look we need a modus of ndp against russia. we don't want nuclear war, doing those -- were sort of caught in an escalatory game here, and you saw this a little bit with biden, the same day biden said, here are the sanctions, let's find an off ramp, here's a summit. the things you're describing keep us in the escalatory loop.
i'm not saying they're wrong, i'm just getting out, is there a way that we unilaterally bring the relationship into something more functional, or is that just not possible? >> i'm not sure, chris, that it is possible with vladimir putin running russia, and we have to recognize that's because of vladimir putin now because of us. that said, i don't think we should look forward here, i don't think that we should be going to look for cyber escalation upon escalation. the big complex relationship between u.s. and russia has enabled for corruption -- sorry for cooperation on things like the iran nuclear deal or nuclear arm control, at the same time, we're confronting each other in other areas. again, i do think that we have to do certain things because we care about the, not just in russia, but globally. >> the reason to go after corruption and autocracy is not because we're seeking to get rid of putin and russia is because we're seeking to get rid of those things globally, and the united states can take
a stand on those principle not just an opposition putting but everywhere. >> the point about money laundering is very well said. ben rhodes, thank you so much. that is all in on this tonight, the rachel meadow show starts right now. rt right now. happy to have you here. a big news day today, president biden announcing we just hit 200 million doses of vaccine administered. you will recall he initially said he wanted 100 million shots to be administered in his first 100 days as president. then when he hit that really early, he doubled the goal and said, okay, not 100 million shots but 200 million shots in 100 days. today's announcement means that he hit that, even that doubled goal, more than a week before the deadline. and this comes, of course, when things aren't all smooth sailing on the vaccine front. this comes of course as we are expecting some word from the of